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    Crafting Proposals

    Ashitaka
    Ashitaka



    Village : Konohagakure
    Rank : Jounin
    Clan : Senju
    Discord Tag : Dairo#2144

    Crafting Proposals Empty Crafting Proposals

    Post by Ashitaka Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:05 am

    Bear with me please, because there's going to be a lot here. First things first, I'd like to direct everyone to the post I made along this vein on the other Gladius site, found here. That post got a lot of views, and no responses. I know this seems like needless complication, but Crafting adds an avenue of power (and if done correctly, roleplay) not available to characters who lack it. And I personally feel that current rules on how it should be handled are too vague. Some additional rules I'd like to add are:

    1. Proper damage type sorting (Cutting, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Elemental, Sensory, Psychic). All of these are hinted at in various other rules, but never really clarified. So let's clarify them. The following list will be with the assumption that there isn't an extenuating factor (typically a jutsu, such as Chakra Flow) that alters them. If there isn't a type on this list, it can probably be factored into one that is (such as Crushing being Bludgeoning, but slowly).

    -Swords, Knives, and Halberds can do both Piercing and Cutting damage unless otherwise specified.

    -Whips, Staves, Clubs, Hammers, and all variations thereof can do Bludgeoning damage. Bokken-nata and Shinai, despite being Kenjutsu weapons, also do Bludgeoning damage.

    -Projectiles can do Piercing damage unless otherwise specified.

    -Axes can do Cutting damage. If you have an axe that can't cut, you have a hammer.

    -Explosions can do any combination of damage types as long as the types and reasoning are specified in their design.

    -Genjutsu-assisting objects generally do Psychic/Sensory damage.

    -Special weapons crafted by PCs can do multiple types of damage, but which types must be specified and the designs should indicate their abilities. As a general rule, you should be able to predict what kind of damage a weapon inflicts by looking at it.

    -Artifact weapons have or should have their damage types in their descriptions.

    -If you don't know what kind of damage your character's weapon does, please ask.

    2. Now on to the other major animal here, Armor (since mercifully, Engineering is no longer a thing):

    Armor is crafted in pieces. Basically, any body part or pair of body parts can have its own assigned piece(s) of armor. I'm not going to go into detail on that, but as a general rule larger pieces of armor should require more materials. The other feature armor has that weapons do not is that the former can be made in layers. To that end, I think that any layer of armor that isn't crafted independently of another one should be considered destroyed with it and offer no additional protection from incoming attacks. More importantly:

    -If your Con is significantly lower than your armor's durability, I feel that should be a factor. Likewise, perhaps it should have a cumulative weight and require a given level of Str to manage moving around in. I know this seems like a huge hassle, but there's a reason like 90% of ninja don't wear much more than say a vest and some wraps.

    -Bludgeoning damage should have a superior effect on armor than Piercing or Cutting. In the case of "soft" armor such as cloth, uncured leather, or mail, this would translate to the wearer taking full or slightly reduced damage and the armor being largely unharmed. In the case of "hard" armor such as splint or plate, this would translate to the armor successfully protecting the wearer once per item hit, after which point it would either be bent out of shape and inflict a movement penalty or shattered and entirely useless. Certain materials like hard leather would be largely impervious to blunt damage unless it came from a significantly superior force.

    -Cutting damage is extremely effective against un- or bio-armored targets. Cloth is about as good at stopping a blade as skin. Maybe less so if you're tough (have a high Con). Likewise, wood and leather are not especially good at stopping blades. Conversely, it is largely ineffectual against mineral and metal armors.

    -Piercing damage is generally ineffective against armor of any kind, although it can ignore it entirely if the person directing it at you can find its gaps and aims for them. Maybe there should be a mechanic for that, like a Perception Analysis or something.

    -Sensory and Psychic damage ignore Armor entirely. Because obviously. Except in instances where said Armor is closing off a given sense which is its own set of issues.

    -Elemental damage is kind of a rock-paper-scissors thing when it comes to Armor. For the most part, a jutsu's description will probably give an idea for what type of physical damage it inflicts, however the Element itself will also have to be factored in sometimes:

    Thermal damage is strong vs metal and mineral armor and weak vs cloth and leather armor. Wood doesn't affect it either way unless it catches fire.

    Shock damage is strong vs metal armor and ignores cloth, but weak vs leather and wood armor.

    Particle damage ignores armor or is at best slowed by it.

    Fluids are generally ineffectual against armored targets up until they totally engulf them, in which case the situation is reversed.

    -Materials generated by jutsu are expected to have Quality and Durability equivalent to their Rank unless otherwise specified.

    3. Enhancements!

    -Weapons should only enhance Strength and/or Coordination, and only when wielded and intact.

    -Armor should only enhance Constitution and/or (maybe) Speed, and only when both items in a pair are worn if applicable.

    -Either granting stat trades is up for debate, but given the boost limits and the availability of UAs, not recommended.

    -If anybody presents good arguments in favor of other stats, they're welcome. But as a general rule, equipment should only benefit one of the five physical stats (Strength, Constitution, Speed, Coordination, or Perception).
    Luna Yamamoto
    Luna Yamamoto
    Admin



    Village : Konohagakure
    Rank : Jounin
    Clan : Clanless

    Crafting Proposals Empty Re: Crafting Proposals

    Post by Luna Yamamoto Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:31 am

    Ashitaka wrote:Bear with me please, because there's going to be a lot here. First things first, I'd like to direct everyone to the post I made along this vein on the other Gladius site, found here. That post got a lot of views, and no responses. I know this seems like needless complication, but Crafting adds an avenue of power (and if done correctly, roleplay) not available to characters who lack it. And I personally feel that current rules on how it should be handled are too vague. Some additional rules I'd like to add are:

    1. Proper damage type sorting (Cutting, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Elemental, Sensory, Psychic). All of these are hinted at in various other rules, but never really clarified. So let's clarify them. The following list will be with the assumption that there isn't an extenuating factor (typically a jutsu, such as Chakra Flow) that alters them. If there isn't a type on this list, it can probably be factored into one that is (such as Crushing being Bludgeoning, but slowly).

    -Swords, Knives, and Halberds can do both Piercing and Cutting damage unless otherwise specified.

    -Whips, Staves, Clubs, Hammers, and all variations thereof can do Bludgeoning damage. Bokken-nata and Shinai, despite being Kenjutsu weapons, also do Bludgeoning damage.

    -Projectiles can do Piercing damage unless otherwise specified.

    -Axes can do Cutting damage. If you have an axe that can't cut, you have a hammer.

    -Explosions can do any combination of damage types as long as the types and reasoning are specified in their design.

    -Genjutsu-assisting objects generally do Psychic/Sensory damage.

    -Special weapons crafted by PCs can do multiple types of damage, but which types must be specified and the designs should indicate their abilities. As a general rule, you should be able to predict what kind of damage a weapon inflicts by looking at it.

    -Artifact weapons have or should have their damage types in their descriptions.

    -If you don't know what kind of damage your character's weapon does, please ask.

    I do understand where you are coming from regarding "being hinted in other rules" such as the Bijuu Cloak. I believe V2 grants immunity to piercing damage in the current Bijuu rule writeup. But as it stands, these damage values are already considered in the grand scheme. I don't feel it is necessary to state a specific damage type through a reg because weapons can be improvised, and have been throughout history.

    For instance, a sword's primary purpose may be thrusting and cutting, but they have most definitely been used as a bludgeon in history (ie Mordhau) and were very effective weapons. Any example being a spear, which its primary purpose is clearly thrusting. A spear can also be used to cut, although less effective than a glaive, and even bludgeon using the butte or shaft of the spear much like a staff. Often times, iron shods were fixed at the butt end of a spear to grant greater impact.

    The point I want to make is in an open world, text-based RP, the type of damage that can be done is fully up to the user as long as they can justify the output logically. But the fact is many writers are going to improvise the tools they have to benefit them the most in their current situation, much like how many warriors did in the past. So labeling what a technique or item can do upon registration is a generally poor practice, because that creates the concept that everything that isn't listed being not allowed.


    2. Now on to the other major animal here, Armor (since mercifully, Engineering is no longer a thing):

    Armor is crafted in pieces. Basically, any body part or pair of body parts can have its own assigned piece(s) of armor. I'm not going to go into detail on that, but as a general rule larger pieces of armor should require more materials. The other feature armor has that weapons do not is that the former can be made in layers. To that end, I think that any layer of armor that isn't crafted independently of another one should be considered destroyed with it and offer no additional protection from incoming attacks. More importantly:

    -If your Con is significantly lower than your armor's durability, I feel that should be a factor. Likewise, perhaps it should have a cumulative weight and require a given level of Str to manage moving around in. I know this seems like a huge hassle, but there's a reason like 90% of ninja don't wear much more than say a vest and some wraps.

    -Bludgeoning damage should have a superior effect on armor than Piercing or Cutting. In the case of "soft" armor such as cloth, uncured leather, or mail, this would translate to the wearer taking full or slightly reduced damage and the armor being largely unharmed. In the case of "hard" armor such as splint or plate, this would translate to the armor successfully protecting the wearer once per item hit, after which point it would either be bent out of shape and inflict a movement penalty or shattered and entirely useless. Certain materials like hard leather would be largely impervious to blunt damage unless it came from a significantly superior force.

    -Cutting damage is extremely effective against un- or bio-armored targets. Cloth is about as good at stopping a blade as skin. Maybe less so if you're tough (have a high Con). Likewise, wood and leather are not especially good at stopping blades. Conversely, it is largely ineffectual against mineral and metal armors.

    -Piercing damage is generally ineffective against armor of any kind, although it can ignore it entirely if the person directing it at you can find its gaps and aims for them. Maybe there should be a mechanic for that, like a Perception Analysis or something.

    -Sensory and Psychic damage ignore Armor entirely. Because obviously. Except in instances where said Armor is closing off a given sense which is its own set of issues.

    -Elemental damage is kind of a rock-paper-scissors thing when it comes to Armor. For the most part, a jutsu's description will probably give an idea for what type of physical damage it inflicts, however the Element itself will also have to be factored in sometimes:

    Thermal damage is strong vs metal and mineral armor and weak vs cloth and leather armor. Wood doesn't affect it either way unless it catches fire.

    Shock damage is strong vs metal armor and ignores cloth, but weak vs leather and wood armor.

    Particle damage ignores armor or is at best slowed by it.

    Fluids are generally ineffectual against armored targets up until they totally engulf them, in which case the situation is reversed.

    -Materials generated by jutsu are expected to have Quality and Durability equivalent to their Rank unless otherwise specified.

    With respect to what was stated about damage types, your input regarding armor is more or less followed. There are some things I do disagree with, and that was what was said about different damage types interacting with certain armor types. This is again a kind of wildcard which has a ton of factors reliant on the RP setting. Cloth armor, for instance, was very effective when layered and used a lot during history, such as a Gambeson. Piercing on the other hand was extremely effective against mail armor.


    3. Enhancements!

    -Weapons should only enhance Strength and/or Coordination, and only when wielded and intact.

    -Armor should only enhance Constitution and/or (maybe) Speed, and only when both items in a pair are worn if applicable.

    -Either granting stat trades is up for debate, but given the boost limits and the availability of UAs, not recommended.

    -If anybody presents good arguments in favor of other stats, they're welcome. But as a general rule, equipment should only benefit one of the five physical stats (Strength, Constitution, Speed, Coordination, or Perception).

    Now that you do mention it, I feel it would be beneficial to state what stats an item can boost. Weapons are a given, being Coordination or Strength when interacting with the item in question. Armor can be Speed or Constitution. I know on Gladius item buffs followed the "As long as you can prove it" thing, but I feel that's a bad practice and can lead to things eventually getting out of hand.




    Overall in regards to the damage types those are already followed, though I don't feel there is a need to necessarily state the particular damage types of an item or technique since in many cases they're self-explanatory. The external damage types are: Physical(Pierce, Blunt, and Cut are subcategories), Fire, and Lightning. Physical damage's subcategories are really only important when considering the uncommon usage of them as a balancing mechanism (cloak V2) or when making a ruling regarding armor and weapons, though the latter really falls into the realm of common sense; wearing a red, skin-tight latex suit will do nothing for you in regards to protecting against blunt impact. But now the same latex suit layered several times over providing a 2 inch thick padding will provide much greater blunt protection. There's really nowhere to "draw a line."

    Regarding your armor concerns there is something I feel that may be worth noting and fixing, and that was the abuse of "light armors" seen on the other site. With no regulations whatsoever, a piece of cloth can be registered up to S Hardness. This makes light armors sought after due to their flexibility, lack of bulk, and lightweight. By limiting custom material lightweight regs to, lets say, B-rank, this makes metallic armors required for higher ranking protection, thus requiring more strength. But really, C-tier Strength allows you to move at full capacity without any armor dragging you down unless the piece of armor in question was purposely made bulky.
    Ashitaka
    Ashitaka



    Village : Konohagakure
    Rank : Jounin
    Clan : Senju
    Discord Tag : Dairo#2144

    Crafting Proposals Empty Re: Crafting Proposals

    Post by Ashitaka Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:58 pm

    I appreciate your feedback. I'll respond once I collect my thoughts on the matter again.
    Ashitaka
    Ashitaka



    Village : Konohagakure
    Rank : Jounin
    Clan : Senju
    Discord Tag : Dairo#2144

    Crafting Proposals Empty Re: Crafting Proposals

    Post by Ashitaka Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:05 am

    Okay new idea: scaling crafter buildings. As they are, the current crafter building system is a great way to get "free money", but otherwise is a bit lackluster. So I propose that instead the buildings scale like the Housing system does:

    E-Rank: Cart/Shack - 50,000 Ryo

    Bonuses:
    Mobile (Supplants UA)
    10% Investment Return/month
    Can Buy/Sell/Repair Equipment

    Upkeep: 5,000 Ryo/month

    Bonuses:
    D-Rank: Mom & Pop Shop- 100,000 Ryo
    15% Investment Return/month
    Can Buy/Sell/Repair Equipment
    Deliveries

    Upkeep: 10,000 Ryo/month

    C-Rank: Brand Name- 150,000 Ryo

    Bonuses
    20% Investment Return/month
    Can Buy/Sell/Repair Equipment
    Instant Craft up to D-rank
    1 free Appliance (Forge, Anvil, or Crucible)
    1 Hired NPC can have related Crafting Skill up to C-rank

    Upkeep: 20,000 Ryo/month

    B-Rank: Supermarket- 300,000 Ryo

    Bonuses:
    20% Investment Return/month
    Can Buy/Sell/Repair Equipment
    Instant Craft up to C-rank
    2 Free Appliances (Anvil, Forge, or Crucible)
    2 Hired NPCs can have related Crafting Skill up to B-rank
    1 (+) Advantage to Quality/Durability of Crafted Items
    -25% Rent Costs for Crafting

    Upkeep: 40,000 Ryo/month

    A-rank: Household Name- 500,000 Ryo

    Bonuses:
    25% Investment Return/month
    Can Buy/Sell/Repair Equipment
    Instant Craft up to B-rank
    3 Free Appliances (Crucible, Anvil, and Forge)
    3 Hired NPCs can have related Crafting Skill up to A-rank
    2 (+) Advantages to Quality/Durability of Crafted Items
    -50% Rent Costs for Crafting

    Upkeep: 50,000/month

    Note: Further investments may be made for greater returns, however no bonuses will be available beyond A-rank and Upkeep will remain at 10% of amount invested. Failure to pay Upkeep will result in Foreclosure of the store and loss of all profits (both from Crafting and Investments) and other bonuses for that month.

    Note 2: Rent Costs are the flat costs to Crafting per Quality Tier shown in the Crafting Guidelines thread.



    On a related note, I'd also like to raise the proposal again of Character Expenses (Crafting Materials, Buildings, Investments, Equipment, Housing, etc) to be factored into their home city's Monthly Income. The reasoning behind this is that, as I mentioned on the Discord, I don't like the idea of the money appearing out of and disappearing into thin air, especially when there's a reasonable explanation as to where it could be going, at least in part.

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